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Pehla gunnah(evil) Iblees ny kia tha jo Hasad tha

Or zameen pr b pehla gunnah(evil) Hasad hi tha jo Qabeel ny kia

Bary ka nahi pta is lia just pehla likha :X

yes USA u r ri8

Jazak Allah!

@my view on the above discussion between +USA and +Alwaina

Hasad or Ghumand se zyda bara pehla gunah jo dunya me huwa wo qatal tha. Qabeel ne Habeel (AS) ko qatal ker dia tha. Ye gunah Fisad-fil-arz me ata hai. Quran k mutabiq, Fisad qatal se bara gunah hai.

Rectify me if m wrong, i ll be obliged

Mujy ziada tu nahi pta lakin agr dekha jaye tu sb sy bara Gunnah kufar hy Quraan may jahan kahin b Kufar-o-Shrik ka zikar hy wahn mostly sath Azaab ka b zikar hy 

Quraan may Fisad ko qatal sy bara kaha gya hy means k qatal b boht bara Gunnah hy jo usy Gunnah ki shiddatt k comparison ma use kia hy 

Pehla or bara Gunnah ALLAH knows and we don't know 

Jab hm Surah Al-Baqara ki ayat 34 ko dekhyn tu usmay b Iblees k pride sy pehly usky inkar ka zikar hy Surah Al-Kahf ayat 50 may b "wo jino may sy tha or apny RABB k hukam sy nikal gya" k words hyn (it is not full ayat)

@ According to me Qatal or Fisad alag alag hyn tu hi unhy compare kia gya hy is k lia ap Surah Al-Baqara Ayat 217 dekhyn Al-Baqara ayt 191 may b zikar hy iska 

Next ap logon ko koi reference mily tu plz provide kijaye ga Thanks

nice sharing

Me insano k perspective se bat kerna chah raha hon. 2nd thing k mera focus Hazrat e Adam (AS) k dunya me ane k bad k un circumstances pe hai jab gunaho ko define/document kia ja raha tha. So my only point is that at the very beginning of world what was the greatest crime in COMPARISON to major crimes committed at that time.

I prefer not to discuss such things in detail, still compelled to talk about it for clarity purposes.

Jaisa k hum logo ne recently discuss kia k jo gunah us waqt huwe. Farz karen k hum abi sirf  6 gunahon ko discuss ker rahay hain, 1-shirk, 2-hasad, 3-gharoor, 4-kuffar, 5-Qatal. 6-Fisad. Mera view ye hai k agar in gunaho ko compare kia jaye to apko ye dekhna pare ga k in gunaho me konsa gunah CATALYST ka role ada kerne ki capacity rakhta hai. Jo gunah jitna zyda catalyst ka role ada kare ga wo itna hi bara gunah hoga.

For instance:

Shirk - Allah Pak ne farmaya sare gunah maaf ker du ga shirk maaf nahi keru ga. Laikin ye Allah or banday k apas ka mamla hai. Pehli bat k koi insan kisi dosre insan k mushrik hone ka faisla nahi de sakta, 2nd k koi insan dosre insan ko shirk ki saza nahi de sakta kyun k ye haq Allah ne apne pass rakha hai k wo kisi ko maaf kare ga ya nahi. (God-vs-Man)

Qatal: Aik insan ka qatal pori insaniat ka qatal qarar dia gaya hai, jabke aik insan ki jan bachana pori insaniyat ki jan bachane k mutaradif hai. Qatal Allah kisi soorat maaf nahi kerta jab tak maqtool maaf na ker de. (Man-vs-God-vs-Man)

I compared Shirk and Qatal in my limited perspective, is comparison se thora bohat idea ho jata hai k in dono me se konsa bara gunah hai.

So catalyst aik most major factor hai. Maslan jaisa k jhoot ko taman gunaho ki jarr kaha jata hai. So jhoot aik aisa gunah hai jo CATALYST kehlaye ga. Ab agar in 6 gunaho ko aik aik ker k discuss kia jaye to bat bohat confusion ka shikar ho jaye gi.

So precisely I 'll insist k fisaad aik CATALYST type gunah hai, jo baki sare gunah khud kerwane ki taqat rakhta hai. Shaitaan basically insan ki soch me fisaad paida kerta hai, Qabeel ne apne nafs ki khuwahish k liye jo stand lia wo basically fisaad kehlaye ga or fisaad ne us se qatal b kerwa lia. Gunaho me individual or social factor b involve hota hai, agar gunah individual hai to wo shaks khud iska zimadar hai (Allah se maafi mang le to maafi b mil sakti hai) but agar gunah public me ho, ya dosre logo ko involve kerta ho to hadd jari ho jati hai, jis me maafi ki gunjaish khatam ho jati hai.

Quran se istafada agar ahadees k context k sath kia jaye to zyda clarity milti hai. I may still be wrong in my above narration (May Allah forgive my unintentional mistakes....ameen). It's my bad that I cant provide you extensive references on above narrations, but I assure you its according to contextual knowledge on ahadees. Deen ki samaj k mamla pe musalmano me ajakl aik "Quranists" firqa b riwaj pa raha hai, I respectfully disagree with their narrations.

Hopefully its my last comment on this discussion

Allah Pak se dua hai k wo humain deen ki haqeeqi maarfat ata farmaye.....Ameen.

"Quranists" ka firqa 1st time hi read kia hy 

Wasy may Ahadees ki importance sy inkar nahi krti Quran-o-Sunnat hi mukamal DEEN hy

Just comments may Quraan ka hi hawala is liae deti hon k Quran hi hy jiski waja sy hmm Ummat-e-Muhammadya kehla rahy hyn 

Different Firqa k log apni apni samj k mutabiq Ahadees ko different matters sy joorty hyn ................

Quran wo kitaab hy js pr hm sb agree hyn... Ab jasy ap (God-vs-Man) k mutabiq keh rahy hyn Aik insan ka qatal pori insaniat ka qatal .....Iska reference agr ap Quran ki surah Al-Maidah ayat 32 sy dyn tu ziada best rahy ga(Quran ka reference ho tu koi muslim inkaar nahi kr sakta...hm sb namaz Ahadees ki roshni may hi ada krty hyn Quran may about 700 times hukam hy tareeqa sunnat sy sikha or AAP SAW ny sari zindagi namaz prhi lakin hm phir b namaz k aik tareeqy pr mutafiq nahi hyn)

At the end may ye kahon gi k Hadees hy Aamaal ka daromdar niyat pr hota hy.

So hm na tou ksi Naiki(good deed) ko chota ya bara keh sakty hyn na hi ksi Gunaah ko chota ya bra keh sakty  bcz Jaza-o-Saza ALLAH ki tarf sy hi muqarar hy or wo Dilon k Raaz janta hy  

@+ AℓωιиαMαhαм(MS)

Seems as if you took my generalized comment a bit personal well m sorry if you felt offended.

With all due respect, m sure, you will know a lot ahead insha Allah, as you knew about the Quranists first time. Btw Quranists mostly dont openly call themselves Quranists. I just intend to inform everyone to be careful on whose religious teachings you are listening to.

Waise jis tarha as you said "different firqa k log apni samaj k mutabiq Ahadees ko different matters se jorte hain" isi tarha aise logo ki b kami nahi jo Quran ko b apni samaj, aqal or firqa k mutabiq interpret kerte hain. Me even k bare mashoor ulema ka b bata sakta hon jo aisa kerte hain but logo k sentiments mutasir hon ge, thats why its not better to discuss. 

Quran ki tafseer kerne wale kai ulema ki tafaseer b apas me conflicting hoti hain, so me quran fehmi ka aik zyda munasib tariqa share ker raha hon jo mujhe kafi blanaced laga, me kisi zaeef tareen hadees ko b respect dene or weightage dene ka qael hon (even if it had to be low), isi liye ahadees k context ko samne rakhna behtar samajta hon bcos k quran ki tafseer har kisi k bas ki bat nahi. Even ulema may be mistaken, like Taliban ka jahadi material b zyda tar quranic references pe based hai, they exploit this highest faith of people on Quran. despite the fact that they miss the broad picture by not understanding Quran combined with Ahadees.

Mene jo God-vs-Man wali bat kahi, agar wo naozobillah Quran o hadees k munafi ho to please guide me, I have shared best of my knowledge on it. Here is quranic reference, if this can satisfy you more:

آپ سے حرمت والے مہینے میں لڑائی کے متعلق پوچھتے ہیں کہہ دو اس میں لڑنا بڑا (گناہ) ہے اور الله کے راستہ سے روکنا اور اس کا انکار کرنا اور مسجد حرام سے روکنا اور اس کے رہنے والوں کو اس میں سے نکالنا الله کے نزدیک اس سے بڑا گناہ ہے اور فتنہ انگیزی تو قتل سے بھی بڑا جرم ہے اور وہ تم سے ہمیشہ لڑتے رہیں گے یہاں تک کہ تمہیں تمہارے دین سے پھیر دیں اگر ان کا بس چلےاور جو تم میں سے اپنے دین سے پھر جائے پھر کافر ہی مرجائے پس یہی وہ لوگ ہیں کہ ان کے عمل دنیا اور آخرت میں ضائع ہو گئے اور وہی دوزخی ہیں جو اسی میں ہمیشہ رہیں گے (٢١٧)

Surah Bakra-217

Its not that I cant produce references, there's a bit time constraints, and mostly I dont prefer to...if someone is genuinely curious to learn, they should research for themselves. I talk after doing my research work.

Sunnat ka ikhtalaf, beshak namaz ho ya koi b amal, ye pareshani ki bat nahi honi chahiye, k baz ulema isko rehmat hi samajte hain k sunnat har rang me zinda hai. Laikin Quran ki samaj ka ikhtalaf???.....i donno where we will be dragged to.

You very rightly said, beshak Amaal ka daromadar niyyaton pe hai or humain kisi gunah or naiki ki rating ka haq nahi. Laikin Allah ki shariat me Gunah-e-Kabira or Saghira, yahan tak k kuch naikio k darjaat ka b bayan milta hai. (Surah Bakra ki mentioned ayat me "Bara" ka lafz kitni bar aya hai you may notice). Ye batain hamain guide kerne k liye hi hain. Beshak har kisam k gunah se bachna hi hamara farz hai, laikin agar kisi insan ki niyyat proper tarbiyat se mehroom reh jaye to mumkin hai k wo aisa bara gunah ker bethay jo chain-reaction ya catalyst sabit ho or wo shaks mardood hi ho jaye. Deen isi liye cheezon ko intehai clarity se bayan kerta hai.

I hope nobody will be offended by my explanation, it was all for further clarity for those who want to know. As an experienced teacher, it's my duty to tell everyone whatever I have learned so far, m always ready to rectify myself if mistaken on any point. You still have right to disagree.

Allah Pak hum logo ko shariyat ki haqeeqi samaj or is pe amal ki taufeeq ata farmaye.....Ameen.

 + USA  ab  may question kron? 

JAZAK ALLAH

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